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Bike fit

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Deej, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    Just thought I'd add to the data pool:

    If you're looking to get fitted for a new bike or would simply like to get professionally "dialed-in" on your current ride, there is a shop called Zunow East in Higashi Funabashi (Sobu Line) that offers an excellent service. Some of you may have read about the fitting service in a recent issue of Cycle Sports magazine -- which is how I found out about it.

    I went there on Saturday, and the shop's owner, Oyama-san, did all the measuring himself and explained every part of the process very clearly and with great attention to detail.

    He uses the so-called Cyfac Postural System (http://www.euroimport.sakura.ne.jp/euroimport-cyfac/07_Postural.htm), which is explained well in this article I've linked to here from Cycling News.

    Part 1 (getting measured):

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/cyfac_nerv_pt1

    Part 2 (post-measurement evaluation):

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/reviews/cyfac_nerv_pt2

    Once the numbers are crunched, he walks you through the different readings -- four pages of data in total (including one showing ideal cleat alignment!).

    From there, your bike is placed on a special machine on which Oyama-san can adjust it down to the last millimeter to approximate the "ideal" measurements. I say "approximate" because the fitting data includes ideal seat angle and head tube angle, etc., which cannot be adjusted unless you want a custom frame. If you're feeling rich, you can order a custom Cyfac bike from France using the measurement data.

    I had to skip the very important part of getting my bike adjusted, as my Felt is at the manufacturer's being inspected for a crack. I will take my bike back to complete the process, though I may use the fitting as an excuse to buy a new frame (don't tell my wife).

    The service, including getting the measurements taken and having the bike adjusted, costs 15,000 yen.

    Here's a link to the shop: http://www.zunow.net/

    D
     
  2. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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  3. Phil

    Phil Maximum Pace

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    Thanks for the info deej--I actually read that article too, I think (two issues ago, right?)

    I'm constantly tweaking fit and position, so much so that I've often thought it would be best to just pay someone to figure it out for me, all scientific like :) How close did they get to where you already are on your bike? Anything that was very different than you've done so far? Or will you have to wait until part 2 to find that out?

    And those Cyfac bikes look tres, tres cool--I love that red/silver paint scheme on the one featured in the cyclingnews article.
     
  4. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    Hey Phil -- yeah, the article appeared two issues ago.

    First, I should say that I've been fitted before (Ys Akasaka). The reason I decided to try somewhere else is that I've never felt truly satisfied with the results. I was put on a frame that was on the long side (due to my flamingo legs), forcing me to run a shorter stem than I would like. You could say I suffer from a form of stem envy. I now use a 9cm stem (short! stubby! chibi!), whereas I would prefer an 11cm stem because of the more stable handling it would offer (and the manliness associated with a longer stem).

    Although I haven't had a chance to get my bike adjusted for the new measurements, the numbers generally jibe with my current setup. One thing that stood out was that my saddle height under the Cyfac system is about 1 cm lower than what I currently run. In the following article, this was also the case for a person who used the Cyfac method: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/default.asp?pg=fullstory&id=3617

    The reach works out to be about the same, although Cyfac suggested a 56.2 cm top tube (c-c). My current bike's TT length is 57.3 cm.

    Cyfac puts me on an 11cm stem -- compared with 10cm recommended after my fitting at Ys. As I mentioned above, I later went to a 9cm stem because I felt too stretched out on the 10cm when in the drops.

    Handlebar width remained the same at 44 cm c-c. Ys fitted me for a 40cm handlebar, saying 44cm would be ridiculously huge. I tried the 40 -- it felt way too small and I quickly put the stock 44 back on.

    Crank length: Cyfac -- 172.5. Current -- 175. Not sure if I want to change this; I'll talk about it with Oyama-san.

    I'll give you more feedback (including seat-to-bar drop data) after my second session. But for now, I can say that this fitting confirmed what I've been feeling: I should be on a slightly smaller frame.

    And yeah, those Cyfac bikes are sweet.

    D
     
  5. Phil

    Phil Maximum Pace

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    Hmm, much food for thought... The guy in the cyclenews seemed to have his saddle height way up there in the first place ("just below the point where the hips rock"), so I wasn't surprised the fit called for it lower. I think if you go too high you end up with a significant loss of power right near the bottom of the stroke when the leg extends, so maybe that's what the system is addressing?

    Handlebar width is one I'm not sure about; mine is stock 44 cm but that's always felt it to be too wide (I have narrow shoulders). This seems to be a modern trend, along with sloping tob tubes/compact geometry etc etc? I'm sure handlebars never used to get that big back in the day... I know my old 10-speed felt quite narrow.

    Anyway, thanks for all the info--keep us updated on how the second session goes.
     
  6. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    Warning, bike-dork stats follow...

    Saddle height

    At my fitting at Ys, my inseam was measured at 89.7 cm -- almost alarmingly long for a person 182.3 cm tall. Based on this reading, my saddle height, as measured along the seattube from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat, was set at 79.2 cm. At this height, I felt like I was losing power on the stroke, so I lowered it to about 78.2, which feels just right -- in other words, no knee pain, and a nice feeling of power transfer.

    Under the Cyfac system, my inseam was measured at a more human 88 cm -- a significant 1.7 cm shorter than the reading at Ys. Based on this figure, my seat height was calculated at 77.2 cm, a centimeter shorter than my current setup. I'll see how that feels once my bike is adjusted, but I can't help but think it will be a little low. Wish I could test the wattage to gauge power at different heights.

    Handlebar

    At Ys, my shoulders were measured at 40.2 cm, which I was told was "narrower than normal." That made me feel nice. As I mentioned earlier, the fitting pro swapped out the stock 44 bar with a 40, which did not feel right, as my arms were angled in toward the brifters, which in terms of weight distribution did not feel good after eight hours in the saddle.

    The Cyfac system put my shoulders at a more masculine 42.7 cm, and I felt like calling the dude from Ys and braying the old childhood taunt "in your face disgrace!" Based on this measurement, I was assigned 44 cm handlebars. Right on.

    Palette

    At Ys, I was told I was more of an "autumn" person, and therefore my hooded lycra time trial skinsuit should be burnt umber rather than the "Stars and Stripes" motif I currently rock.

    Using the Cyfac Color Pro 6000, Oyama-san rated me as more of a "spring" person, saying I should incorporate dusty rose and lilac tones into my cycling wardrobe.

    This has got me very confused, as I always thought of myself as a "winter" person. I may ask for a third opinion.
     
  7. Phil

    Phil Maximum Pace

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    :D:D:D:D:D

    Seriously, next time I buy a bike I'm going to ditch all the analysis and research and overthinking and just buy one based on color alone. I've learned that "Brushed Aluminum" makes for a very slow bike. The next one I get is going to be red, as I believe this is the fastest color (something to do with the specific density of quantum light particles in the red and infra-red spectrum, as I understand it.) Also, it must be glossy for improved aero effect.

    :road01:
     
  8. Philip

    Philip Speeding Up

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    I have heard . . .

    Certain letters, arranged in a specific order can increase the speed of a bicycle. Indeed, anyone riding a bike wearing the correct letters in the correct order cannot be beaten. I am privy to a few of these winning strings of letters:

    C O L N A G O

    C E R V E L O

    Notice they both have 7 letters, begin with C and end in O. Don't bother with five words beginning in G and ending in T - I have already tried it :mad:

    Cheers,

    Philip
     
  9. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    Colors absolutely make a difference in terms of performance. I am certain that Jan Ullrich would have won the Tour de France several times over had he not been forced to wear pink and, when he raced for Bianchi, Celeste green. Dampens the spirit.

    And, as Philip noted, letter combinations also contribute. For example, after I painted the full lyrics to "We Are The Champions" on my top tube, I noticed I could climb much faster and, more importantly, with more panache. Kind of obvious when you think about it.
     
  10. Edogawakikkoman

    Edogawakikkoman Maximum Pace

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    My bike is red! :road01:
     
  11. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant Maximum Pace

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    Perfect season for you!

    You'll be matching the leaves under your wheels:p

    As for for myself; I can't remember who complained about "brushed aluminum" being slow, but my bike colors are basically, :road03:

    I've thought about changing my "name" to "SILVER GIANT"!
    But everyone told me that "silver" (in Japan) makes me sound "old".
    Then, I asked Thomas, "how about 'Gun-Metal-Grey-Giant'?"
    He told me it was a bit long, so hence, I remain...Yellow...!

    >Deej: You've been "diagnosed" as both 'Autumn' & 'Spring', and then you say that you feel 'Winter'... I was SO ready to call you a 'Summer' guy
    What ye gonna do now, buddy?

    If you want to call it 'Four Seasons', you'll have to wear them "rainbow" stripes of the "World Champion". But beware that the gays are trying to make it their 'logo' as well - Check out Oxford street, Sydney! Or them San Fransisco cats!

    Jokes aside, stick with the Black/Yellow "Felt" color-scheme! You can call yourself both Spring/Summer with that. Autumn/Winter could work too....

    In the end, STOP asking other people's opinions, and find what is right for YOU!

    P.S. If you're on a 'red' bike next time and you end up going faster than me, I will be SO angry with Phil!
    T
     
  12. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    Strange. That would seem to imply that I'm slower than you now. :p
     
  13. WhiteGiant

    WhiteGiant Maximum Pace

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    Touche!

    Oh yeah! I forgot about that.
    Sorry Deej;)
    Later! T
     
  14. AlanW

    AlanW Maximum Pace

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    Hmmmm

    The front end of my bike is clear-coat carbon (i.e. black) a known 'fast' colour.
    The back end is brushed aluminium. I hope the back can keep up with the front.
     
  15. Phil

    Phil Maximum Pace

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    I dunno, you better watch out for chainstay stretch...

    Deej, did you go back for the second session yet? I'm still following the fit story...interested to know about saddle to handlebar drop...
     
  16. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    No, the bike is still...somewhere. :( No word at all from the LBS. Last thing I heard from the distributor, they took a photo of the affected area then sent the pic to Felt for an appraisal.

    The bar-drop readout for Cyfac was 6.8 cm, compared with a suggested 9.9 cm at Ys. I think the 6.8 is a little shorter than what I'm running now (hard to tell with no bike). I can probably handle a centimeter or two more of drop than suggested with the Cyfac system.

    In the meantime, I'm *this* close to pulling the trigger on a titanium Panasonic -- the same model that Thomas has. I think I'll order it tomorrow via Zunow East and have them set it up according to my fitting measurements.
     
  17. Phil

    Phil Maximum Pace

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    Oh yeah, the Panasonic... That was in last month's Cycle Sport, huh? It caught my eye because it's one of the few brands available in Japan in 60cm+ sizes. They're going to have a booth at the show--definitely will be dropping by.
     
  18. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    Yeah, the ad's been in a couple issues now, sending me not-so-subtle messages to buy it. I'm calling the LBS today to inquire about the ordering process. I'll pass along any potentially helpful info.
     
  19. Philip

    Philip Speeding Up

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    Hi Deej . . .

    Which will you choose - sloping top tube or flat?

    Cheers,

    Philip
     
  20. Deej

    Deej Maximum Pace 3rd TCC KOM 2012

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    Hi Philip

    I'm going with the horizontal version, purely for aesthetic reasons. I guess I like its "classic" geometry. Also, I dig the oversize downtube -- probably not everyone's cup of tea, but I think it's, er, phat.

    Did I actually say "phat"?

    I called the LBS (Zunow East -- same folks that did my fitting) today and they're checking what size frame would probably fit me best based on my measurements.

    Total side note: Oyama-san, the extremely helpful owner of Zunow East and who I think is in his early forties, finished a very respectable 28th -- only 9 minutes back -- in Sunday's Tour de Okinawa (200k citizen's division). Somehow, I feel better being helped out by a guy who is not only a good wrench, but also a competitive rider.
     

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