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Help Cable mount problem

Discussion in 'Bicycle Mechanics' started by Half-Fast Mike, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Half-Fast Mike

    Half-Fast Mike Maximum Pace

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    As some of you already know, I am semi-officially providing some logistical Sarah Outen, the British adventuress currently in Japan on her way around the world by bicycle, kayak and rowing boat.

    Sarah's bike, "Hercules" is a Santos Travelmaster 2.8 Alu; aluminum frame, 28"wheels, belt drive, 14s Rohloff hub, Magura hydraulic rim brakes, panniers all over the place. Beast!

    To my view, this bike frame has a serious design flaw. The cable mount at the head tube is too far forward. As a result, both shift cables and the rear hydraulic brake hose get pinched when the bars are turned a long way to the left. You can see the damage:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I can obtain and fit replacement Rohloff cables and Magura hoses. But I would like to sort a better, less-destructive mounting arrangement for these three lines, further back on the top tube to provide more movement of the cables and avoid pinching.

    Sarah still needs the bike to go across North America next year.

    I know I can get a stick-on cable clamp from a motor parts store. But ideally I'd like to arrange something more substantial.

    Any ideas...??
  2. StuInTokyo

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    Oh I'm sure we can fix that problem!

    Two ideas come to mind, neither involving aluminum welding :D

    one, make a clamp that goes onto the top tube further back like you suggest, the other is to make a limiter that will not allow the bars to turn past 90 degrees in either direction.

    Much like this unit from >> Peter White Cycles <<

    View attachment 946
    ... on this bike the stop is actually brazed onto the frame, but I'm sure I could make a piece that clamps onto the head tube that would do a similar job, well clamp and epoxy that is :cool:

    I'm wondering if you could buy the part that clamps around the stem, would save a LOT of work making it...?

    Certainly moving the clamping point back along the top tube will help, but the handlebar stop would eliminate the problem.
    Cheers!
  3. StuInTokyo

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    Also as much as I like Aluminum bikes, for a trek around the world, steel is the only way to go, it can be modified or repaired just about anywhere.
  4. kiwisimon

    kiwisimon Maximum Pace

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    Don't you need a knobby bit on the headtube for the handlebar stop to work?
    Certainly cable guides further back along the TT would help. If it were me I would attach a ring to the bit brazed on there and that would let the cables move a bit but not require major surgery. Is Sarah going to replace the cables, brakes and get a major maintenance job b4 she leaves these fair shores?
  5. onm

    onm

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    Would it not just be a lot easier to chisel off the offending cable mount, and attach the cables with cable ties.

    This would give more flexibility, if attached with the correct tension, and would slip and move slightly when the cables dictate.
  6. jdd

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    Just an aside, but for around-the-world I would've ASSUMED 26", then maybe 700c as a very distant second, and would've given big odds against anything else.

    on edit: added ASSUMED in big caps, rather than "guessed", as it had been.

    Also, I'm not a pro on any of this, but as long as she's here for a while, and is using disc brakes, why not have her wheels re-done to 26"? (so that a big big world of available options opens up)
  7. StuInTokyo

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    Yes I wondered about that too, in fact I wondered if it was a typo, but checking their site it says 28" (700CC) wheels, learned something new, I did not know about that size of wheels, so what is the difference between a 700C and a 700CC wheel? Rim width?

    The other thing is I would have gone with cable operated disk brakes, because even if you prang a rim, you still have brakes that work. If you look at this video here.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W4QOhaee0g
    .... at the 1:19 point, you can see the mud packing up on her brakes, with a disk brake you avoid this problem too, not to mention the disks don't care if it is raining or wet, while we all know how rim brakes do not preform nearly as well wet as dry.

    Lastly I'd worry about the belt drive, they are supposed to be just about bombproof, but if you do somehow damage a belt, there is no repairing it. Seems like it has held up so far, and I guess you could just carry a spare belt, should not weigh that much....?
  8. StuInTokyo

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    Cable ties would work, but they are not a true fix, IMHO, they are a band aid fix, an on the road fix. She will be traveling across the US and Canada in some fairly extreme weather, and cable tie fixes will break and fall off, especially in the cold, I know that from experience. What she needs is a good clean easy simple fix, a bracket that clamps on about 5cm back of the head tube on the top tube would provide that fix, again, IMHO, YMMV :D
  9. StuInTokyo

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    Yes, but that part would be much easier to manufacture than the bit that clamps onto the stem.

    I agree that a ring attached to the current cable mount point would be better than just the cable mount, but I think for long term durability the clamped on cable guide is better than cable ties. This is the kind of thing you do not want to have to fiddle with out on the open road, IMHO :D
  10. Half-Fast Mike

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    Hey chaps. Thank you for the very quick and thoughtful responses.

    I came to this project after it had started, and had no input in the choice of bicycle. I wouldn't have chosen this one. Maybe it was a sponsor thing. Sarah's primarily a rower, so she may have been relying on advice from someone else who hadn't ridden around the world. Too late now, except inasmuch as I've learned several valuable lessons about details that can make or break a great expedition bike!

    I too am confused about the wheel size. Sarah's hoping to find some ice/snow tires to practice in Gunma for the winter conditions she will have in N America next year. Non-existent "700CC" tires could be tricky to source. I will investigate the writing on the wall... of the tires Herc is currently wearing.

    Back to the OP.

    I have now found this stuff at Universal Cycles

    [​IMG]


    Useful inspiration, perhaps. But none of these product is useful for three cables in a bunch.

    At the moment I'm tending towards Simon's suggestion - somehow fix a smoothed plastic stem spacer vertically on the existing cable clip, and run the replacement lines through that. Non-destructive, (potentially) elegant, effective, cheap.

    The Dirty Dog Skull Bucket Cable Guide is also interesting. If only (1) it weren't a skull, and (2) it were smaller, so I could bunch three together.

    [​IMG]

    Maybe the electronics parts stores in Akihabara have something...?
  11. GSAstuto

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  12. GSAstuto

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    As for touring machines:

    700C is common everywhere except where you need it most. I've had to substitute a 26" when touring through Macedonia and Greece - 700 was simply unobtanium. If she is running discbrake, then I'd simply swap in some 26" wheels instead. (Happy to build one around her Rholoff). Besides having alot more tire selection for touring purposes, it will drop the gain ratio down a bit - most tourists have 'eyes bigger than their legs' when it comes to gearing.

    As for what material is 'best'. This also hardly matters - because even though 'any farmer could fix this'. Good luck actually finding one if it does! Go with the lightest and simplest you can.

    I have some spare Gates belts, BTW , find out what size she is running. But this will probably be the last thing that ever breaks on the bike. It's the same material as automotive timing and generator belts. And those easily get 10's of thousands of Km at much higher load and rpm.
  13. StuInTokyo

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    Tim, she is running "Magura hydraulic rim brakes", so little chance of Changing to 26" wheels I guess.
  14. FarEast

    FarEast Maximum Pace Post Of The Week

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    Simplist solution used by most DH or XC Mtb riders that switched from V-Brake to Disc. In fact it is becoming the norm for XC and DH frames to come with cable tie/zip tie mounts rather than braze on mounting.

    Also if they fail then easier to repair or replace.

    [​IMG]
  15. FarEast

    FarEast Maximum Pace Post Of The Week

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    Why bother with those when you can just ziptie the cables directly to the frame?
  16. FarEast

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    BTW Jagwire have a whole range of these cable guides. Y's road carries them in stock.
  17. StuInTokyo

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    Intrigued by the 28" question, I had a look at Sheldon Brown's pages.....

    http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

    .... looks like the 28"x 1 1/2" is ISO 635mm English, Dutch, Chinese, Indian Rod-brake roadsters (Also marked F10, F25, 700 B)

    I did notice she at least has a Brooks saddle :D
  18. ProRaceMechanic

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    Referring to picture 2, I would just cut the left cable mount off leaving the single one. Then I would widen the second one very, very carefully. The widening would be to provide a little wiggle room and using the second mount would put the cable junction behind the steer axis. I would then wrap the cables with electrical tape to dampen any vibration. Its probably better the cables broke. They are probably worn and need replacing and if this didn't happen now it may have happened later. Is there gear on the front? my guess is that it is not from the handlebars turning but from moving the cables out of the way with gear. I would recommend cabling the bike with the gear on it to get a good idea of how long or short it needs to be. The reason I say short is because this will leave clearance if the front is loaded. I would estimate that will work fine at minimal cost. Be sure to cover the exposed aluminum with primer and paint. Or if she does not want to cut the frame, just zip tie the cables to the top tube. Sometimes its the easiest solution that works best.

    Be sure to get new pads on those brakes and carry an extra pair. Magura is not exactly a house brand at most LBS in US. Also replace the hose on the front brake.

    If she can set of with a new cassette and chain. If she has arches in her feet make sure she has arch support in her shoes and I hope she was fit to her bike. Also if she doesn't know about SMFR she should. This will allow her to get her muscles back to there normal length after every ride. It is best to do this and stretching immediately after every ride. She can do this by carrying a tennis ball. Search "tennis ball massage", " tennis ball therapy" or "small ball therapy" and you will find a variety of good video's

    Best of luck to her!

    Oh, and make sure she reads all of the many saddle rash threads in our forums.
  19. kiwisimon

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    http://www.msgbikes.com/bike-specif...antos-travelmaster-2-8-alu-rohloff-belt-drive

    I bet you a keg of Stu's beer that you'll find 700C written on her tires, for icy conditions and being that weight isn't her main concern check out these, I was, just last week.
    http://www.do-blog.jp/jitensyahonpo/article/1331

    If it was my bike I would go with heavy duty cable ties but seeing as the frame was custom made I wonder weather they made the cables too short when installing the parts, or the front handle bar bag is creating funky angles that cables don't like?
    Here is snoogly's touring style bike http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/1186654/1/Rohloff?h=ef5a74#/ and there is a ton of cable in front of the bike making for gentle bends.

    Stu any beer is good by me but Yona Yona is my fave! Cheers
  20. jdd

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    At least someone had some sympathy.

    ***

    Sorry, I didn't read the OP carefully enough, but still, hydraulic rim brakes?!?! I think this is the first I've heard of these.

    A year or more ago a rider by the user name of Helen (or Helen C, who had asked for some advice on this forum) was thru here and she had a flat as I was escorting her out of town. My levers literally bent and were unusable getting her tire off, let alone getting a new tire back on. In retrospect (and I could be wrong), but I think she had 28" wheels (an REI bike) and had 700c tires on them. If you are ever helping someone out, keep this in mind.

    ***

    As for the 28 inchers, Ms Outen may have had the benefit of some support folks along the way?

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