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Garmin Vector 3 (or just power meters in general)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TokyoLiving, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. TokyoLiving

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    I started looking into power meters and came across the Garmin Vector 3. Anyone have any experience with these? I have Dura Ace pedals and cleats. Are they compatible? I see they are designed for Look.

    I like the idea of easily switching the pedals between my two bikes. It seems the other power meters are more difficult to do that.

    Anyone want to chime in on the Garmin or other power meter experiences.

    Thank ye
     
  2. armmewitharmony

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    I'm totally not the tech guy, but pretty sure it's those LOOK KEO pedals you need to go to.. If you don't mind it it's a matter of using different cleats on your shoes?

    I may be wrong. I like the idea of being able to switch power from bike to bike too but Ii also wonder if I'd really do it even if I did have those thigns..

    Also, personal thing but I thing Garmin stuff is crappy and gimmicky and unreliable so well there's that too. Personal bias it's called? lol.
     
  3. xDOMx

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    I recently invested in a power meter. I personally went for crank-based (Quarq), but have heard decent things about the Vector 3 (my understanding is that the first gen were not great, the second gen got better, then the third is better still). However, I don't trust Garmin products having had bad experiences with their cycle computers.

    DC Rainmaker and Shane Miller on YouTube are great sources of information - they seem to like the Powertap P1 pedals (from pedal-based power meters).

    The Quarq I have is brilliant, but you have two bikes so pedal-based may be better in your case (for changing between bikes, etc.).
     
  4. TokyoLiving

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    Will look at the quarq. I don’t have to have it be interchangeable. I could just designate one bike as the one I use for tracking the details.

    Thanks
     
  5. TokyoLiving

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    I think you are right. Look Keo. I wonder if they are three bolt and just a matter of switching them out or need some sort of accessory to make them compatible.

    I’ve had nothing it good luck with Garmin products. So I don’t hold the same opinion. But I can understand how it would color your view.

    @xDOMx you are right each iteration of the vector has gotten better and better.
     
  6. OreoCookie

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    I'm pondering about power meters as well. @TokyoLiving, any reason why you go for a pedal-based power meter?
     
  7. leicaman

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    Not heard much about the vector 3 but there were lots of complaints about the originals and 2. Personally, I would stay away from them and get a crank based PM. I also have the Quarq Dzero and love it. I got it from Starbike in Germany.
     
  8. armmewitharmony

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    See this is the thing - GARMIN, as a company, their products and their way of doing business - what they did essentially with the VECTOR 1, 2, maybe even still with the 3 is release a beta product but charge the ever so willing public to carry out product testing / act as reasearch nodes. They are one company that has benefited so much from something, don't ask me to lay out exactly what it is, I'll just call it, luck or whatever - a good logo, who knows but for some reason they've got this position in the market that defies what they're actually putting out. I think their products are all show and no go and nobody dares call them out on it. Or maybe not until recently, maybe people are a little more vocal about GARMIN problems and choosing other products like the WAHOO ELEMNT or BOLT. None of them are perfect, but I think GARMIN somehow has got a reputation that's way way better than it actually should be.

    Think sterotypical high school quarterback douchebag who knows how to act in front of the right people and he gets all the girls but in actual fact is full of shit and a dickhead but no one dares call him out on it. Well that's overstating a bit but maybe you get what I mean. In this case through blind lluck. lucky timing? Somehow GARMIN's the market leader despite putting out piece of shit after piece of shit and having piece of shit customer support / service to boot. I really don't know how they've continued on for so long.
     
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  9. wexford

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    I have PowerTap P1s. Had them two years now and work pretty flawlessly until recently. The left pedal takes the power from the right pedal and reports the total power to head unit. If right pedal is not there (out of battery etc), left pedal doubles the power of the left pedal and sends that. As I'm mostly just looking at total power, I'm not sure precisely when it happened but my right pedal stopped working. I suspect it was after the heavy rain of Karuizawa gran fondo this year. Anyway, noticed the right pedal reading was missing a ride or two later and of course the P1s were just out of warranty (2 years). Sent them back to powertap for repair (or at least get an estimate). Will report how that goes.

    Pedals themselves work great. Not 100% compatible with look cleats though. I did pop out both feet doing a bunny hop in the winter with winter booties on. Once I switched to powertap cleats which look the same, but are slightly little difference, all was well. Also am now riding keo pedals again with the powertap cleats and so far so good. Although it depends on the keo pedal I think as I did ride one of Tim's bikes with Keo pedals and had an annoying left side of shoe/right side of show vertical movement (as if on a slight pivot).

    Up until the Garmin Vector 3s came out DC Rainmaker preferred the P1s over Vectors but last I read he was thinking of changing (possibly has changed) his recommendation to the vector 3s. Vector 3s seems solid. I got a pedal based solution so that I could bring them with me to and get power when traveling. Easy to put on and off and P1s had also no complex calibration process.

    Not sure what I would buy now if I was in the market. Love power so would definitely buy something. Either the Vector 3s (simply because they are 3rd revision and lighter) or a spindle based one like the Quarq. I would definitely buy a dual sided solution over single sided.
     
  10. TokyoLiving

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    As I wrote I have two bikes I use and the idea, in theory is to switch pedals when needed. So mainly for flexibility, which I may or may not take advantage of. But just don’t want to be locked into one bike.
     
  11. TokyoLiving

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    I read the reviews on the P1. Positive, but seems the V3 iteration is giving PowerTap a run for their money. And the V3s are significantly lighter.
     
  12. TokyoLiving

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    Those that are using power meters, are you finding it helpful with your training and goals? Or in short, is it worth the investment?
     
  13. xDOMx

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    In short, yes. I haven't ridden outdoors much since the nipper arrived, but I've found it really useful with the indoor training and then translating that into (any) 'real world' riding outdoors.

    I anticipate this will also help, moving forward.

    With that being said, I'm very much terrible at regulating my use of power/energy, so that's why a power meter is useful for me, i.e., helps me not be an idiot all the time (I tend to leave nothing in reserve for longer rides).
     
  14. armmewitharmony

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    First of all I should say there was quite a bit of resentment behind that last post about Harmon so sorry readers about that - doesn’t help anyone. But my negative perspective on that batch of products stands. I’ll of course take a different stance once I see something different.

    As for power meters, yeah I think they’re expensive but depending on how you use yours I think they can be reallly fun / helpful.

    Now that I’ve spent a few years with one do I think I could live without one? Possibly.

    Would I take a power meter over di2 if I could only have one? Tough call but personally I’d probably go for the electronic shifting over power data ( live or post ride).
     
  15. OreoCookie

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    I don't have a power meter yet, but everybody I talk to about training to become a better cyclist tells me I need one. I have been riding by feel my whole life, and I am good at pacing myself (most of the time) when I am out one a regular ride. But training without one is not very easy. When I am doing over-under intervals, my first interval is usually way too hard, but then I get more consistent. Which means for the first interval, I am training for another adaptation — anaerobic efforts rather than those right around the lactate threshold.

    I imagine some people find it useful for pacing on regular rides, but honestly, I think I am mostly ok here with riding by feel.
     
  16. OreoCookie

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  17. TokyoLiving

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    Thanks for all the comments and links. All food for thought.
     
  18. leicaman

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    A couple of years ago I thought I’d never have a PM. That all changed last year when I got one. Now I hate riding without one. I do a lot of short rides on the Arakawa which the PM is perfect for. It also helps greatly on climbs when it helps you measure your effort really well. When I sent my road bike back to the UK for a repaint, I moved the PM over to my gravel bike cos I hated riding the Arakawa without any power data. Di2 or a PM? Absolutely no contest. PM every day of the week for me.
     
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  19. armmewitharmony

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    Ahh yeah I should have pointed out too that the bulk of my training has evolved over to the indoor tacx neo/zwift set up - where power is essential indeed

    Out on the road now, like climbing real hills for instance, I find I’m not looking at power as much as HR now ironically enough - I’m finding HR tells me what percentage of the days capabilities I’m expending, and I know exactly how long I’m able to stay at a certain HR and how long I can go above and by how much - the power just works itself out real world for me.

    Training inside though, I look at power still to get my bearings on progress I’m making. I can see I’m getting stronger as a result of the power I can produce, out on a real climb I don’t need to know the power as much as what effort I’m expending.

    (I’ve overcooked it lookin to produce hypothetical power numbers that was above my threshold for the day, also underperformed sticking to a power that I could have gone higher on.

    Anyways that’s where I am now in my relation to my power meter.

    So that’s why I think I could possibly ride alright without it and just HR on a ride, but I would need it for training I think. Maybe not. Lol who knows!
     
  20. armmewitharmony

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    Oh, I should also say power is in the Tacx Neo so the bike one is well, an extra.
     

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